All the worlds shatter and converge. You go mad, slowly, not realizing it's happening, in some forgotten tomb, on the battlefield, from loss upon loss upon loss. The cracks had always been there and you'd always /known/ they'd been there oh but suddenly look around.
Hey, gang.
This is a relatively short post. I have like 7 posts in various stages of written and a further 5 beyond that. This blog has become my very own Book of Sand. This one is dealing with some Undead Settlement stuff that doesn't really fit anywhere else.
I stumbled upon a DS2-3 theory I'm trying to flesh out and I've kind of hit a wall. As background, I wrote/am (badly) writing a series of posts outlining the timeline of DS2, and am currently trying to work on a series sort of lacing the story of 2 into 1 and 3, to try to work out some kind of cohesive meta-narrative for the three games.
I've very currently been working on two posts, one further outlining the potential history of early Lothric, and one trying to sort out the Daughters of Chaos' overall timelines and interrelations.
I had hit a dead end with both when I had a breakthrough in the Undead Settlement.
This will hopefully be a brief post outlining a few things regarding trees, giants, and the endings of DS2.
Church of the Spirit Tree
'Ever since its establishment,
all manner of curses have managed
to seep into the Undead Settlement.
The worst of them were sealed away inside a spirit tree,
but eventually the curses took their toll.'
We find the Curse-Rotted Greatwood inside of a fortified abbey controlled by the Way of White. There's all kinds of stuff I could talk about, but I really want to zoom in on the stuff relating to Mirrah and Carim, as well as the nature of the Greatwood itself. There's a lot to unpack with the Greatwood, but it should be pointed out that Yhorm is also described as a Greatwood, and it's insinuated that Yhorm failed to protect some kind of 'peer' giant, such as a spouse, relative, or close friend.
I'm not saying that the Settlement Spirit Tree is the one Yhorm was trying to protect, but I think that if Yhorm was protecting another giant then she might be the leading candidate. And the Greatwood is pretty clearly a she.
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| I mean...right? |
Greatwoods and spirit trees are synonymous, at least to some degree (unless there are translation issues,) and this spirit tree - despite absorbing a 'great many curses' - appears to be in the dispersal phase of its reproductive cycle; additionally, the tree is being sort of mindlessly worshipped by the workers. The post I'm working on expands on all this, but that kind of gives us an idea of the Greatwood itself. I'm almost certain I should be calling it herself. And potentially even Herself.
That the Greatwood can friendly-fire his worshipers may be a reminder that, as we saw in Shulva, brainless but sincere worship does nothing for the thing being worshiped beyond maybe aggravating it.
The Transposition Kiln is worth discussing, but I'm going to skip it since it doesn't really tie in to the rest of what I'm talking about. It contains some kind of curse, probably relating to humanity/the Dark, and is the kind of thing that can destroy kingdoms.
It can be inferred from the second phase of the boss fight that the transition from giant to watcher tree can potentially go both ways, with the giant breaking out of the bark when their reproductive cycle is complete. Of course, given her condition we don't know if this is a natural part of the process. Finally, the CRG is being used to dispose of 'curses,' which include a transposition urn, Lucatiel's soul, and Arstor's soul. These curses are being dumped presumably to keep Aldrich from eating them.
I hope you're as confused as I am. Here's some other weird shit about trees in Dark Souls.
Witchtrees, in the second game, were synonymous with Saint Trees, with the major difference seemingly being build variety. Elana appears to be the same type of creature, but one who mainly casts pyromancies and hexes. In the third game witchtrees seem to be the tree enemies we find inside of the painting. These cast pyromancies and frost sorceries, and it's implied that Sulyvahn may be the same or a closely related species.
Witchtrees may be related to the Scarecrows of the Royal Wood/Darkroot Garden.
I have no idea how the Ethereal Oak of Millwood figures into it. Yet. Given the description it almost seems like the Undead Settlement may have been Millwood before Lothric took over the area.
Hollowslayer
I'm sure we're all familiar with Lucatiel, as she's generally regarded as one of the five best 'taken in isolation' characters across the series. We find her entire kit in the third game.
And it is her kit, despite her brother being - by her own account - the more renowned officer in the outside world.
Hodrick - beneath the tree - has her shield, and her armor is found in the tower outside of the Church. Her mask we get in a crow trade for a Vertebra Shackle (seemingly confirming that the link to Hodrick and the Mound Makers is intentional, and that MM's madness is more a case of soldiers coming to not only welcome, but to be possessed by a desire to spread the curse/blessing of hollowing).
That's interesting, but the mask further describes a comrade of Lucatiel's who inherited her arms and ensured her name was remembered until literally the end of history. This character, in the second game, was the Thronetaker: the Cursebearer who eventually sat on the Throne of Want, becoming the True King of Drangleic. The rest of the set describes proven Mirran Knights being sent on journeys to fulfill sacred duties, despite few of them ever delivering on their vows. If the Slave knights are descended from Mirran Knights and the Mound Makers the same, then this could have IMPLICATIONS. We know that Havel figured into the history of Mirrah in some fashion, and they seem like a very devout place. My thinking is that they were possibly 'granted foreign aid' by Thorolund or the Lindelt White. Her arms describe the nature of L's curse (undeath/hollowing, specifically,) in terms of both harboring and opposing flame, and the fear and madness that slowly replaces the person the undead once was.
The lore from Lothric seems to imply that their original mission in Lordran was to link the Fire, and that their understanding of this process came not from tales of Gwyn, but from tales of the True King of Drangleic. Depending on what you're willing to believe this could entail becoming the Dark Lord and ushering in the Age of Man, and doing so by linking the Old Chaos - an imperfect copy of the First Flame. Further, the Old Chaos had been further profaned by Ivory and Alsanna.
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| "Right. We're gonna be smart about this." - early Lothric |
Impaler
We can also transpose Earl Arstor's spear from the Greatwood's soul. I've written extensively about Carim on the blog, but haven't really covered Arstor as I always felt like I was missing something. This might be it.
If we take Lucatiel's comrade as the Thronetaker from the 'good' ending of the second game, then Arstor may relate to a character I refer to as the Last Scholar: the Cursebearer from the 'there is no path' ending. Wolnir is still my favorite for this character.
Early Lothric, interestingly, is tied to Carim, but /not/ the Way of White. In other words, the statue of Velka, Caitha's Chime, Gael's Merciful Goddess, the Tearstone rings, the Sniper Crossbow: all that stuff's presence in Lothric predates the merging of Thorolund and Carim, although it may see current use with one of the Lothric factions. The Thorolund Carim merger is hard to place in the timeline, but seems to be tied up in Aldrich and Sulyvahn's story, which may have been a kind of generational power struggle rather than some kind of decisive invasion or buyout by C against T or whatever happened.
But before that happened, Carim was active in Lothric, despite the Way of Blue being theoretically loyal to Gwyndolin, whom Lothric seems to view/have viewed as the rightful king of Anor Londo. If we assume that the implied connection between the DmB and the church of Velka is intentional, then this adds a 'shadow' layer to the founding of Lothric.
Lothric represents the descendants of the descendants of colonists from Lordran attempting to re-colonize Lordran. Gwynevere and Flann begat Olaphis begat Venn and Alken begat Drangleic. Drangleic (and here's where it starts to sound really crazy, but it all fits, from what I can tell,) begat the Dark Kingdom - a place probably forbidden from 'official' histories but imagine if you tried to found a New Anor Londo on the ruins of DS2 using Forossa's martial engineering, Carim's church, and (possibly,) first-hand relationships with Lordanic nobility.
This is possibly where Arstor could fit into events. Lothric was founded on three pillars. These characters, I suspect, represent an alliance between not only normally-opposing characters, but normally-opposing 'kindgoms.' The Knight seems to be heavily rooted in Forossan and Warrior of Sunlight mythology, for example, while the Priestess seems to be tied to Gwyndolin (obviously,) and Carim (less obviously, but the Book of the Guilty seems to tie the church of Velka pretty closely to Gwyndolin - both 'Dark Goddesses': one a very intelligent miracle user, the other a very faithful sorcerer).
Whatever the case, Arstor could have been active in Drangleic during this Dark Kingdom period - especially when you consider that Arstor is rich, powerful, and an insane genius) although I don't think this is a particularly solid case.
Throughout Drangleic we find evidence of Carim meddling in Drangleic's recent past, including the pardoner/s and Caitha's stuff (and possibly the mysterious necromancer/wizards and historically-outlawed-clerics. It's possible that Arstor may have been involved with whatever in-game mission the goddesses were involved with in Drangleic, as well.
Arstor seems like he specialized in curses, and Drangleic was the place to be to learn about curses. Life is Want, after all. Arstor's also credited with creating Purging Stones, as well as the resistance-bite rings and later attributed to clergy. He's described as being pretty horrifically evil, but, like, every tool has a purpose for a clever goddess, right? Lautrec was embraced by Fina's love only as long as he was about the goddess' work. If we consider this, along with descriptions of other Carimites, it seems to be a very common theme around the Dark Goddesses involving them knowing exactly how to put evil bastards to good use.
So, here we have the Dark Kingdom, founded by the Cursebearer, who I believe to be a Dark Lord, hence the name of the Kingdom.
In other words: Drangleic enters the Dark Age when the Cursebearer overcomes the trials and takes the Throne of Want. The Dark Kingdom may have been a continent-spanning empire, it may have been a sad group of transient refugees surviving on bark and resentment while trying to retain a fingerhold on power. The kingdom, just as the Age of Light before it, faced Dark's own Curse: Death. Specifically, Death represented by the Kingdoms of Mytha and Elana.
We're getting really into the weeds here.
Right. In the Undead Settlement, outside of Lothric, we have a Greatwood, apparently, seeding, and in the Greatwood are a bunch of curses, and two curses are particularly notable: the sword of an honorable knight turned hollow who crossed paths with a legendary Cursebearer, and the poisonous lance of a mad scientist nobleman who may have been involved in an elaborate mission in post-Drangleic that potentially culminated in the founding of Lothric.
The Dark Lord
So, who then ensured Lucatiel's name would survive the ages? It's not her body we find, just somebody that must have come into contact with the Cursebearer.
At the end of the second game we have a few potential candidates.
Let me back up.
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| [The original/s can be found in the Duke's Archives in the first game. -FM] |
My reasoning here is more or less the same as figuring out the canonical 'light' and 'dark' 'lords' from the end of the first game. Solaire was available as a summon for the Gwyn fight. In my mind that means that, in Solaire's world, he finally fulfilled his weird-ass mission by succeeding Lord Gwyn as Lord of Cinder. As to the other ending: given all of the stuff in the second game - particularly Wellager's dialogue - there's evidence to suggest that Vendrick was the canonical Dark Lord, in that he gathered the Lords Souls in Lordran, but instead of linking or attempting to put out Gwyn's fire, he returned to his homeland in the eastern mountains of fallen Alken and use their strength - and his half-brother's political power - to found Drangleic.
Now, as to the timeline of DS2,
Drangleic is, when we find it, a lost kingdom full of mindless hollows. It would have quickly become a power vacuum, and eventually someone would rise to power. Let's say the Elana/Volgen/Sentinels faction rises to power. This would seem to make sense, as it would be an alliance of Dark and Blue forces operating as a nominally White factions, and Arstor would fit as a kind of linchpin between the 'light' and 'dark' missions of Lothric and the Priestess, although I can't quite square how Elana/Sentinels would come to align with the Carim Church, beyond a tenuous connection via Tears of Denial.
In either case, these factions, Elana and Arstor, would later, under the banner of the Priestess of Lothric, schism between the Way of Blue/Sentinel/Drang-flavored and Carim/Way of White/Lordran-flavored. The Blue would later schism between Knight and Priestess factions, while the Way of White would schism between the Profaned and Deep factions.
See? Totally obvious. I can't imagine more than 30% of this is right.
This Dark Kingdom, as stated above, eventually becomes Lothric after undergoing an exodus back to Lordran. This could have been instigated by the rise of Mytha's kingdom, which I'm convinced eventually produced Wolnir, the Last Scholar (From the 'Dark' DS2 ending).
One imagines this entire Age of Dark would have been shaded by the nature of whoever took the Throne, right? It would be 'His' kingdom, after all.
At the Throne of Want we find, available as summons, Benhart of Jugo, Bradley of the Old Guard, and Vengarl of Forossa. There's a case for and against each being the canonical Thronetaker.
Benhart would be a good candidate for Lucatiel's friend, but isn't as good a match for True King of Drangleic, at least to my thinking. Vengarl, having found some peace of mind and a new lease on 'life,' was in many ways a blank slate. He certainly seemed to have thought highly of Vendrick, and this, combined with his newfound enlightenment, may have set him on the course for kinghood. On the other hand the crown'd probably fall off for, like, a lot of reasons.
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| Sulyvahn, or the WoW more broadly, may have mistaken the Smelter Throne of Alken for the Throne of Want. |
Bradley we know much less about. The "Old Guard" isn't mentioned anywhere else, but he wears the same armor as Alva, meaning that Alva may have been a member of this guard as well. He casts miracles, which means he either isn't from Drangleic or is from pre-Shulva Drangleic. His chime shield thing can be found on that fuck-near-impossible to jump to ledge at the bottom of the Grave of Saints where you find the Lion Knight and Firekeeper Red Phantoms, which would seemingly offer more evidence B is from early Olaphis.
Bradley is a dex-based cleric/paladin, and can also be found in the Shaded Ruins and No Man's Wharf: relatively innocuous places that are most notable for where they connect to. He may be the best candidate for Thronetaker simply because he doesn't really have a backstory beyond being a kickass paladin.
Additionally, Solaire is seemingly regarded as a pretty kickass paladin by the Knight faction of Lothric. This is interesting because Lothric is from Drangleic. In Lordran (Farron is on top of Olaphis, remember,) Artorias is wrongly remembered as the Firelinker.
Benhart's shield ended up in Lothric, as did vestiges of Vengarl's order, and Alva and Zullie ended up traveling to some pretty strange places, so at least one member of the Old Guard made it over.
Personally, if this is even any kind of real thing I'm onto, I think it's pretty even odds. Benhart is the most like an actual king, Vengarl could potentially have gone on to do anything (and let's not forget the Beheading Knight statues,) and the Alva set looks the most like the Lord of Cinder.
Potentially all of them did, I suppose. Possibly that's even what we're seeing here: a kind of amalgamation of the three characters into this historical Olaphian Lion Knight Sunbro Dark Lord.
